Hmong Community Debates ‘Dowry’ Cap
New America Media, News Report, Pha Lo and Stephen Magagnini Posted: Dec 22, 2006
SACRAMENTO -- At the sprawling Hmong New Year celebrations at Gibson Ranch and Cal Expo last month, tens of thousands of American Hmong came to celebrate ancient customs - and perhaps find a mate for themselves or their children.
Hmong of all ages line up to toss tennis balls to members of the opposite sex - a classic ice breaker and conversation sparker.
And in the back of nearly every female catcher's mind is the question: how much am I worth to my future husband and his family?
Many pitchers are asking themselves the same thing: if she's the love of my life, how much will it cost me to marry her?
In traditional Hmong culture, the bride and groom's families will negotiate a "wedding gift," "dowry" or "ceremony price" that has averaged $5,000 to $8,000, and has gone as high as $25,000 for a Hmong bride who graduated from Stanford.
Wedding gifts have been negotiated for thousands of years, and serve as a sort of marriage insurance policy. If a couple divorces and clan leaders judge it to be the bride's fault, her family will have to return the gift, so everybody on the bride's side has a vested interest in making the marriage work.
But as more Hmong become Americanized, and new Hmong from Thailand struggle to house and feed their families, the escalating gift price has become a large bone of contention.
There have been reports of Hmong couples who elope because their parents can't agree on the gift price, and Hmong who ignore the gift price and marry out of the culture. Then there are heartbreaking accounts of young Hmong who tried to commit suicide because marriage negotiations collapsed.
Last year, a national Hmong council representing all 18 clans met in Fresno to minimize the strife caused by rising wedding gift prices.
On July 9, 2005, the clan council - calling itself United Hmong International Inc. - capped the "gift price" at $5,000, plus another $800 for other wedding expenses, such as food.
The cap was published in the first-ever "Hmong Traditional Culture Procedural Guide," containing codes of conduct. The 31-page booklet was unveiled at a gathering of 500 Hmong leaders who were supposed to disseminate it to Hmong communities across America.
The codes or guidelines - drafted by clan leaders with the help of two Fresno lawyers - seek to preserve and standardize tradition by setting rules for ancient ceremonies related to births, funerals, shamans (spirit healers) and marriages.
But some say the codes have caused more problems than they've solved, impinging upon the time-honored practice of marriage negotiations between clans. At least four Hmong marriages in Sacramento have fallen through in the last year because of disputes over the gift cap, said Victor Vang, a local businessman who helped author the codes.
Vang and other clan leaders have sent out a form letter signed by Fresno attorney Sandra Smith asking families who charge more than $5,000 to return the overpayment.
"It's painful," commented Sacramento Hmong radio personality T.T. Vang. "Things are not going as planned. Parents become bitter, and very often the kids are caught in between. A lot of times the girl will run away with the boy. We will see more and more young ladies marry other races."
T.T. Vang would like to see the cap based on a sliding scale so poor Hmong men, especially orphans of war who have no parents, can afford to marry.
Rich or poor, many Hmong are perplexed by the codes, questioning the authority of the clan leaders who drafted them and their validity in a court of law.
"There is no law that's going to force them to comply with this," Smith said. "I have not heard there are ramifications for not following it."
Hmong are also confused by the way the information is being passed on - and by whom, said Larry Thao, host of a local Hmong radio news show and president of the group that organizes the annual Hmong New Year festival at Cal Expo.
Thao translated the codes, which were written in English, and read them on air to his listeners. He says the authors did not establish a way to uniformly distribute the information, nor did they provide a way for redress from Hmong who did not agree. "Disagreements will only continue," he said. "The authors should approach local clan leaders and educate them on each clause and give people a way to discuss their concerns."
Others in the tight-knit Hmong community learned about the codes through word of mouth. In North Sacramento, Hmong were directed to pick up copies of the booklet at Lo Market, which specializes in Southeast Asian foods. Co-owner Tony Lao distributes them to customers.
"If all Hmong accept these rules, then it would be a good thing," says Lao. But as tough as it's been to get the word out, compliance will be even tougher.
"Some Hmong say they are leaders," says Lao, "but they care more about building their reputation than about progress." Lao, who now has three married daughters and one married son, was one of the first Hmong to propose banning the gift price - but his efforts were thwarted by clan elders.
The tradition is so rooted in Hmong culture that even some well-assimilated Hmong resent the idea of being told what to do when it comes to their daughters.
"My daughters are worth more than $5,000," declared Fong Thao, a Suisun bookkeeper with 13 children - 10 of them girls - as he strolled the make-shift boulevards at Gibson Ranch Hmong New Year with several unmarried daughters.
"Not everyone is created equal," said Thao, 43, whose two married daughters each fetched $7,000.
"Sometimes it's not negotiable. If your daughter is a good person, well-educated and follows all the rules some parents ask for more than $10,000. If you have a gang daughter, you will get nothing."
Thao's wife Pang Vang also opposed the cap: "It's not right - are we going to adjust it for inflation?" A wedding is more than a union of two people, it's a union of two clans and extended families, Thao said.
"When there's a wedding going on, we always go through the roots of the family and it's proper etiquette for people to come and contribute. We have a saying, `when you get a husband we can celebrate, when you get a wife we come to help'."
The Hmong Thomas Jefferson who drafted the codes, Thao Vang - president of United Hmong International - said they were inspired by General Vang Pao of St. Paul, considered the leader of the Hmong worldwide.
"He asked us to write it because these have been our laws for thousands of years, but we only passed them on verbally," said Thao Vang, a translator in Modesto. "I worked on this over a year," he said, and after much public comment and input from the 18 clan leaders, the laws were codified. But culture experts such as Vang Cha Lo, a respected mej koob (wedding negotiator) in Laos, Thailand and the U.S. who is currently training a new generation of mej koob in Sacramento, say they were never consulted. Lo, who cannot read or write, teaches wedding songs and customs through oral lessons and pre-recorded cassettes, saying, “the essence of our culture cannot be written down. It must be contained in the heart.”
Xia Kao Vang, director of Sacramento Lao Family Community Inc., said about half the Hmong he knows are observing the cap.
Meanwhile, the debate continues. Those who say that the new rules should be followed in order to create unity are opposed by those who say that gift prices should be decided on a case by case basis.
May Ying Ly, a nationally-known Hmong feminist who's director of Sacramento's Hmong Womens Heritage Association, said she sees both sides of the wedding gift controversy.
"From a cultural standpoint, this is a very reverent way of respecting one's parents because when a bride gets married you're losing your child and in a sense, she's going to be reborn into another clan," Ly said.
"The heftier the fine (gift price), the more it signifies the importance of the bride,"Ly said. "It means she comes from a good family, she's a good person with all the qualities that are going to raise the status of the family she's marrying into."
But the gift price places a huge burden on the bride to make the marriage work at all costs, Ly said. "If anything should happen it's your fault, you're returnable, and she and her family would have to return the gift price."
Sometimes brides are unfairly blamed for a failed marriage, "even if it wasn't her fault or was in an abusive relationship," Ly said. "The wording is, `you now belong to your husband's family.' When you have trouble in the marriage, usually what we hear the men say is,`I bought you, and it's worse when the inlaws say `remember we bought you'."
Such statements "make you a commodity, don't respect you as a person, and that's what gets most people up in arms," said Ly. "We have all these young women coming out of college saying it may be a gift but I don't want anyone down the line saying `you're our property.'"
Added Ly, "It's a very beautiful tradition but some people go overboard with it and demand an outrageously high price. At $800, I was a steal," she joked.
She and her husband, now Mormons, won't expect a gift when their 17-year-old daughter marries. Regardless of the price, the tradition has always meant to ensure each clan has a stake in the success of each marriage. Many agree that without lengthy negotiations and monetary investments, easy marriages make for easy divorces.
More assimilated fathers say that Hmong should do away with the perception of the wedding gift as a "bride price.” Nhia Kao Lao, a father who recently negotiated the terms of his daughter’s wedding says, “if you keep calling it that, then people will say we are selling our daughters and it is impossible to put a price tag on a person."
Tony Vang, a Fresno State education professor who was the first Hmong elected to a school board in California, said that when his daughter married last year, "I didn't even collect a penny for her. I figured out, this is a poor couple, they have their master's degrees but they're just starting new jobs and new lives.
"We should understand we live in 21st century America," Vang said. "The challenge our kids face is different than it was 30 years ago when you lived in Laos."
He remarked, "If my daughter married and I collected $8,000, it's never enough. I'd probably collect a million dollars and feel better."
SIDEBAR: Wedding Gift Discrepancies
Capping the wedding gift can be a tough sell when a family paid $8,000 to another family for their son's wedding. They often expect the same courtesy (and gift) when they marry off their daughter, especially if it's to the same clan their daughter-in-law comes from.
That's what happened to Chang Vang, a 23-year-old Sacramento warehouse worker whose marriage collapsed under the weight of the gift price.
Vang recently decided to marry his 20 year old girlfriend after a year and a half of dating. But his wedding's been stalled since September when negotiations between the bride's and groom's sides broke down over the gift price.
Vang's family asked the bride's family, from the Her clan, to abide by the new rules and ask for no more than $5,800. The bride's parents wanted $6,000 for the bride price plus $800 for expenses.
Vang does not agree with paying any gift price. He says that the tradition worked in the old days because parents often fixed domestic problems in a marriage, but since he expects to turn to courts and the American system should things go awry in his marriage, he does not see the value in paying it.
His fiancee’s mother, Ker Lo, contends the gift price has not lost its traditional value, which validates the success of a mother in raising her daughter.
Lo asked for more than the cap because she says raising this daughter was her biggest challenge. "I had her in Thailand and I had no milk so I worked harder than the children I had in America," says Lo. "Right now I cry a lot over this. If they do not come back and finish the wedding, then they do not value me as a mother."
Each side claims they're waiting on the other side to restart negotiations. The couple intends to get their marriage license regardless of whether they have a Hmong wedding.
Pha Lo is an contributor to New America Media and Stephen Magagnini is a staff writer with the Sacramento Bee. This article is part of a project of the American Society of Newspaper Editors and New America Media, which the Knight Foundation has supported with fellowships for the ethnic media.
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No Place Left to Hide -- Deer-Hunter Case Strips Hmong of Ethnic Anonymity
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User Comments
Tacky Orun on Feb 07, 2007 at 23:31:40 said:
Kindzmarauli vs conyaq, or some...
Topka Ull on Jan 25, 2007 at 22:36:21 said:
God bless any child in this world and beyond
Kaohly Her on Jan 09, 2007 at 00:00:43 said:
I am saddened by this story. I understand the cultural importance of the bride price and see both points of view but I really think it should be up to each family to decide if they want a bride price, and how much. To each family, a bride price means something a little different.
When my sisters and I married, my father did not ask for a bride price even though we all graduated from college, had our own assets which my parents would be losing and professional jobs. My older sister is an Electrical Engineer, I am Business Consultant and my younger sister an Industrial Engineer with her Masters.
My point is that my parents knew in "Hmong" terms, we were worth a lot of money but didn't ask for it. They also knew that we dreamed of having beautiful Christian weddings with receptions and asking for a bride price would make this dream an impossible dream.
I think what it boils down to is that my parents loved and cared for us more than what the bride price meant. To my mother, no one could deny that she had done a good job in raising good children, not just daughters but sons also. She knew that our success in life would speak for itself. My parents faced a lot of pressure from the clan for not asking for a price, my mother was told she was dead in the eyes of the clan because she refused to let them ask for money and my parents both lost a lot of face over this issue.
It is because of my parents sacrifice that my sisters and I want to bring them honor by being successful in our marriages, careers and as parents to our own children. Their sacrifice allowed each of us to save and pay for our own weddings (which they didn't have to put a penny into but received the honor of giving us the money for our weddings), provided us the spring board for the successful lives we currently have today, and solidified for us what the true meaning of love is. Making a marriage work is choice, not an obligation. No amount of money can make a marriage work.
Dr. Kou Yang on Jan 08, 2007 at 12:32:19 said:
Two problems wiht the article. First, Dr. Tony Vang is not the first Hmong elected to public office in California. The first person is Paul C. Lo, former President of Merced Board of Trustees. Second, the article does not represent the view of the majority Hmong who are young, educated and productive. The 2000 US Census revealed that 56% of Hmong Americans are under the age of 18. Many Hmong I know share the view of Dr. Tony Vang. I attended many weddings that were held without the exchange of dowry.
Yeng Xiong on Dec 27, 2006 at 00:20:51 said:
We're talking about Hmong.I will write in Hmong.
Look in the bible Gensis= Charter 24-nqe 32 mus txog 61 txhawg nqe. Nqe ob yog Chiv keev( Gensis) Charter 29= 15-30. Thaum nej nyeem taglawm peb mam tham hais ke sib yuav tsis yog hnub no xwb. Pib thaum 2000 BC mus txog thaum 1900 los 1800 BC los lawm. Tsis tsimnyog peb yuav muat tej no los hais. Tus neeg uas nws tsis paub txog ntawm sib yuav ces yuav hais lus li cag tau. Nyob Hmoob lus neej yog leejtwg nws lam tau lam uas nws cajces yuav tsis vam meem. Vim lub hauvpaus sub pib muaj los lawm. Yog leejtwg saib tsis saib kev sib yuav tsis muaj nqe yuav tau txim los ntawm Yaknauj(Jacob). Peb cov pojniam los peb cov ntxais lawv yeej tsim nug tsim nqe ib yam luag lwm haiv neeg pib muaj kev muaj caij coj. Leejtwg tsis coj nyais ris nyias txim. Nyiaj txhiaj yuav tsis tau peb cov pojniam los cov ntxais Hmoob lus nqe tau hau. Tsuas yog kev lhub xwb. Neeg tsis paub tab thiaj lam tau lam hais lus lam tau lam qua ntxais raws lub siab khib siab xav xwb. Qhov tseeb peb muaj.
Yog hais txog ntawm kaum ob xeem. (12 xeem neeg) nej mus saib nyob hauv Kibkeeb nqe 35 tsooj 22 txog 26){Gensis charter 35 verb 22- 26} Pab neeg no thiaj yog neeg muaj nug nqe thiab tau koob hmoo los tawm Tswv Ntuj Yawg Saub. Dua li tsis yog lawm. Yog hais tias peb muaj ntxiv rau ntawm peb (12) tus Yawm Koob kuj tau thiab. Peb yuav tsum muaj lawv cov neeg tshiab ntawm los ua kab is kev tso mam coj lawv los zwm nrog peb(12 xeem). Hais txog ntawm kev paub ntaub paub ntawv Kuv xav muaj tej neeg lam tau lam hais xwb. Peb Hmoob thiab neeg ntiajteb yeeb tse thiab paub ib yam xwb. Vim ib tus Tswv tsim xwb tsis muaj ob tus Tswv tsim neeg. Kuv qhia rau peb ib tsoom Hmoob txhua tus hais tias peb tsis txhob khab txog kev tse, kev nruam. Yog yuav kab kuv los kuj txhawg khab. Kuv li no vim nyob hauv kuv lub neej mag kuv muaj raws li: Thaum kuv tseem lhuas kuv ua xibfwb qhia ntawv Lostsuas, dlau ntawm kuv ua cov hu dlav hlau( FAG)tom qab kuv kuj tau mus kawm ya dlav lhaus ( Pilot). Tamsim nyob kuv ua haujlwm nrog tsoomfwv. Kev kawm kuj kawm xwb lis nram: AA, BA, MSW, thiab yuav kawm tiav MSW rau lub xyoo 2007 nov. Kuv xav hais cia peb Hmoob sib lhub, sib pab yog qhov twb tsis zoo peb los zaum uake es tham saib yuav ua li thiaj li zoo rau peb Hmoob. Kuv yog Hmoob kuv xav kom peb saib taus peb Hmoob es luaj lwmhaiv neeg thiaj saib tau peb. Kuv thov cov neeg uas lawv hov kawm nqib siab pab cov uas kawm tsis tau, cov tse lhub cov tsis tse, cov muaj lhub cov tsis muaj. Kuv tsis muaj koj pab kuv, thaum kuv muaj mob koj tuaj saib thaum muaj ib yam abtsis siv kuv tuaj pab, thaum ib tus hov tau ncaim peb mus lawm cov: muaj, tsis muaj, cov tse, cov tsis tse tuaj khoom ua ib kev tshai yuav zoo dua li peb ib leeg pheej hais lus saib tsis taus ib leeg. Puas yog kuv nruam mag los yog kuv puas lhwbdaus lawm. Kuv nyob rau caij muab Hmoob, lub caij tsis muab Hmoob. Kuv paub zoo tsuas yog kuv tsis tawm suab xwb.
Yog tias kuv hov hais dlaw los yog hais tsis haum leejtwg siab, los yog kuv hais siab koj los lwm tus Hmoob lawm kuv: uas Yeej Xyooj: Thov mej cov uas tau nyeem kuv cov lus no hov zam txim pub rau kuv hov thov qhia kom kuv hov paub hloo kuv ke hais lus ntxiv. Kuv ua tsaug rau txhua uas tau muaj koj lub caij los nyeem kuv cov. Thov Vajtswv foom koob moo rau peb tsev neeg Hmoob rau lub Tshiab no. {God Bless Hmong}Thov txim kuv tsis paub sau Mimkuj zoo hov sau tsis raug.
Larry Thao on Dec 22, 2006 at 17:00:10 said:
Has txug tshoob kug ntawm peb Hmong, kuv muab ua tuab zoo saib lawm, thaum peb nyob rua tebchaws nplog, ib cheeb tsaav yeej coj txawv ib cheeb tsaam, tej cheebtsaav sau ntau, tej cheeb tsaam sau tsawg, tej thawj coj, tej nomtswv kws muaj nyaj xaav yuav tej ntxais mog mog kuj moog kheev nqe ntau ntau rua namtxiv tog ntxhais cais namtxiv tog ntxhais ca le zoo sab muab tug ntxhais kws mog mog qua rua tug vauv, vim puab muab nyaj pua kev.
Tam nuav tsi yog tam kws suav dlawg nyob rua nplog teb lawm> Peb Hmong nyob rua America yeej tsim nyog lawm kws peb yuav tau hloov. Yog Hmoob tsi kaav lug koom uake khu hab hloov yeej tsi muaj txuj kev rua hmoob taug. Yog nyag yuav yuav lawv nyag sab nyam cais muaj ib cov yuav ua tau zoo, tab sis muaj ib cov yuav muaj teeb meem.
Thaum ua tau rua qhov zoo, cais tej neej yog tsaa hab namtxiv ob tog yuav sib hlub, tab sib thau ua tau tsi zoo cai ob tog yuav muaj kev chawj kev chim. ib leeg yua tu sab rua ib leeg hab yuav ndhau tau moog ua yeeb cuab. Txawm yog tej tub tej ntxhais moog ua neej lawm los tej kev tsi zoo ntawm yuav nyob rua huv lub sab moog ib txhis. tej puj caug yawm cuag los ib leeg tu sab rua ib leeg, yuav ki moog rua tej kwv tej tij tej neej tej tsaav, thaum rov muaj tshoob kug hlaav sib cuag yuav muab nrhu coj lug has hab yuav has ib tam ndhau rua ib tam. tej nuav Hmoob yeej muaj lug lawm.
Tsi nyog kws suavdlawg yuav tau muab tso tseg, ca has zoo, ua zoo, sau kuas yog ib tug nqe, thaum muaj tsoob kug hlaav sib cuag suavdlawg zoo sab luag ntxhis nuav txhaj le yog peb hmoob txuj kev taug.
Yaam peb yuav ua:
Yeej yuav tsum muaj ib paab lug moog tsim kuas muaj tej kevcai nuav, kuv ntseeg has tas Hmong 18 xeem (United Hmong International) yeej yog cov kws muaj feem lug tsim kuas muaj tej cai nuav coj lug siv, tsi yog has txug Tshoob kug xwb tab sis yog yuav lug txhim khu Hmoob tej kev lis kevcai, (custom, Culture, txhawb hmoob tej kev kawm, kev nrhav noj nrhav haus, txhawb Hmoob tej kev laag kev luam, coj peb Hmoob moog rua txuj kev vaam meej hab qha kuas ua lawv le nom tswv kevcai. Nuav yog cov coj tej num.
Thaum kws tsim tau tej kevcai nuav lawm, 18 xeem yuav tau tawm moog qha rua tej hmoob kws nyob muaj paab muaj pawg muaj tug coj noj coj ua paub hab qha kuas puab coj moog qha rua puab tej kwvtij neej tej tsaa txhua tug paub. Yog yaam twg nqai twg tsi zoo hab siv tsi tau yuav tau muab rov qaab moog qha rua yug cov coj kws nyob rua huv yug lub zej lub zog paub hab kuas puab muab xaa moog rua cov 18. Cov 18 xeem yuav tau muaj tej nqais kws suav dlawg pum has tas tsi zoo hab siv tsi tau nrhu tawm, los yog coj moog khu dlua, thaum khu tau lawm, teem kuas muaj rooj saablaa txhim khu, hu suavdlawg cov coj ntawm tej zej zog tuaj nyo ua ke sib thaam, yog nqai twg tsi yuav muab tso tseg, nqai twg yuav muab teev kuas zoo coj moog siv, yuav tau muab rua tej kws lijchoj paab saib hab khu, ntau cim. Yog yuav tsi cuam tshua nomtswv kev cai cais yuav tau coj moog qha rua nomtswv huv yug luv nroog los yog yug lub xeev kuas nom tswv pum zoo nrug yug.
Thaum tav le nuav lawm cov 18 xeem yuav tau teem kuas muaj sijhawm saib yuav pib siv thaum twg, Cov 18 yuav tau qha moog rua cov coj huv tej zej zog hab qha kuas puab moog qha rua puab cov pejxeem, txug caij kws teem tseg lawm cai pib siv tau.
Txhua txhua xyoo los yog txhua ob xyoo yuav tau teem kuas muaj lub sijhawm lug sib thaam (Annual meeting) Lub rooj sib thaam nuav yog yuav lug thaam txug qha txug dlej kws tau ua taag lug lawm, npaaj tej num kws yuav pib ua ntxiv, khu tej kevcai, dlawg tej teeb meem kws muaj.
Yog muaj yaam tshab kws yog kevcai los yog dlej num, teeb meem yuav tau naj xyoo coj lug sib thaam, khu le nuav moog txhaj le yuav zoo.
Kuv, koj peb suavdlaw suav has tas cov coj yeej yog muaj tug tsaa, puab txhaj le raug lug tuav dlejnum. Txawm yog kuv, koj, peb tsi yog coj xaiv puab los kuas kuv koj peb yuav lawv le tej coj noj coj ua ua tau ntawm, Nub nua yog puab coj lwm nub tej zag yuav yog peb moog coj, Txawm yog peb tsi tau lug coj taam sim nuav los tej yag lwm nub peb yeej yuav tau lug coj. Txawm yog peb tsi tau lug coj tam nuav los tej zag peb cov tub kis yuav lug ua cov coj rua lwm tam. Hmoob has tas txwj hlub ua txwj yau tsi nrhuav. Yog twb muaj cov ua tau lawm cais ca le siv sijhawm moog koom, muaj sij hawm moog khu.
Has txug: Dowry:
Hmoob yeej ib txwm tsi suav has tas yog nqe taub haus, Hmoob has tas yog namtxiv chaws dlaa quuv dlaa zig. Lug lug nuav txhais has tas yog koj yuav namtxiv tug ntxhais lawm cai koj yuav tau muaj nyaj ua dlej sab dlej ntswg rua nam rua txiv kws tsim nyog nam txiv tu tau namtxiv tug ntxais zoo nkauj dlawb mog nyoo tseg ca rua koj. Txxhaj le hu tau has tas Dowry:
Tug nqe $5,000.00 yeej zoo lawm.
Nqe nojhaus: Muaj ua zoo saib yeej yog tsawg lawm tag: Ca peb hloov rooj noj haus kws Hmoob ib txwm ua kws yog tua tug npuas coj lug tsuav haus tau cais noj xwb moog ua ib rooj mov kws tsim nyog koj tug ntxais kws koj hlub sawv kev ntawm koj lub xubdlag huv koj lub tsev moog ua ib zag neej hab koj xaav has tas koj ib tug ntxhais tsua yog sawv kev ib zag moog ua neej xwb cais yuav tau ua rooj nojhaus kws tsim nyog rua koj tug ntxhais.
Tog tub los yuav tau paab rooj noj haus vim tug tub los namtxiv tsua yuav tsaa ib zag hab xwb. Yog tug ntxhais tshwm tau ib cov lawm los tug tub yuav tau tshwm ib cov lug paab.
Yog le saib mej yuav noj rooj mov luj los yau, ua zoo sib thaam ob leeg sib paab ua. Tsi txhob muaj tso rua $800 xwb.
Larry ShouaLue Thao
Larry Thao on Dec 22, 2006 at 15:21:03 said:
Ha txug tshoob kug ntawm peb Hmong, kuv muab ua tuab zoo saib lawm, thaum peb nyob rua tebchaws nplog los ib cheeb tsaav yeej coj txawv ib cheebtsaam, tej cheebtsaav sau ntau, tej cheeb tsaam sau tsawg, tej nomtswv kws muaj nyaj xaav yuav tej ntxais mog mog kuj moog kheev nke ntau ntau,ua rua namtxiv tog ntxhais ca le zoo sab muab puab tug ntxhais mog mog qua rua tug vauv, vim puab muab nyaj pua kev.
Tam nuav tsi yog tam kws suavdlawg nyob rua nplog teb chas lawm, peb Hmong nyob rua America yeej tsim nyog lawm kws peb yuav tau khu. Yog Hmoob tsi kaav lug koom uake khu yeej tsi muaj txuj kev rua hmoob taug. Yog nyag yuav yuav lawv nyag sab nyam cais muaj ib cov yuav ua tau zoo, thaum muaj ntxhais quas yuav ua tau moog rua qhov zoo, cais yog neej yog tsaa hab yuav sib hlub moog, tab sib muaj ib cov yuav ua tsi tau zoo, thaum ua tau si zoo koj ua rua kuv chim, kuv yuav ua koj tu sab cais yuav ua yeeb cuab, txawm yog tej tub tej ntxhais moog ua neej lawm los tej kevtsi zoo ntawm nyob rua huv puab lub sab, hab ua rua puab ncu ca moog ib txchis, tej puj caug yawm cuag los ib leeg tu sab rua ib leeg, yuav ki moog rua tej kwv tej tij tej neej tej tsaa, thaum rov muaj tshoob kug hlaav sib cuag yuav muab nrhu coj lug has hab yuav has iv tam ndhau rua ib ta. tej nuav Hmoob yeej muaj ua hab muaj lug lawm, tsi nyog kws suavdlawg yuav tau muab tso tseg, ca has yaam zoo, ua yaam zoo, sau kuas yog ib tug nqe, thaum muaj tsoob kug hlaav sib cuag suavdlawg zoo sab luag ntxhis nuav txhaj le yog peb hmoob txuj kev taug.
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Chor Moua on Dec 21, 2006 at 08:53:45 said:
I consider marriage to be sacred, in which no price can be determined to say, myself (a hmong woman) is only worth $5,000.00
Growing up, I've seen the so called "Marriage Law" be forced upon friends and family. I find it ridiclous.
Hmong clan leaders, who are they and who do they represent? From what I heard, there was no voting system or appointments to say, one man represents a whole clan.
Who is the 18 clans? Do they really represent the hmong clans. Did we vote for them to put them in the position to decide our future of how much we are worth at marriage? Did we ask them to come up with a set price because we feel we are worth more or less?
There is no Hmong governmental body that watches over the Hmongs in the US, those Hmong clan leaders can not say they represent all Hmongs, when there are disagreements.
I have seen families torn apart because of their greed or selfishness for money. Who is to say, a daugther is worth only $5000 or $10000.
Did they ever one ask their daughters, if they consider themselves being sold like to the highest bidder. There is no price to be put anyone who wants to get married the old traditional way.
I feel that marriage is between the families and the price is up to the family to decide. The public should not interfer into something private and precious like marriage.
Hmong people have come a long way from their days in Laos to their success in America. But I would have to MONEY and GREED has created monsters out of some of them. Their traditions has survived till this day, and no one really complained that having a price on a wife or daughter was bad, until someone got greedy or selfish cause they felt their wife or daugher in law was only worth so much.
I'm ashamed to see the Hmong culture and traditions of marriage come to this, the issue of money.
Sing on Dec 21, 2006 at 04:30:38 said:
There are a sector of Hmong today that go about seeing, giving, and getting marry without all the fuss. All perspectives has been point out, the traditional approach has been explained, the desire to fix this tradition has been set. How much more can anyone do? This codes (guidelines) are set up for those mean, abusive, bad, money hunger one. For them, no codes will ever satisfy them. Families that understand, love, and forgive, there is no need for a code as such. There are major factors that has been left out and needs to be understand by every indiviudual Hmong today is this; Marriage should be a celebration, we can only hope for a good marriage, we can also pray for a good future, we can learn to forgive and drop the dowry. There are many Hmong family who practice this moral rules already. And they have done well. For any of those on both side of the argument, good luck in Court! Who is 18 clans? It is another 18 added problems to Hmong community. Think of it, with about 300,000 Hmong live in America, what is the percentage that go and got help from the 18 clans?
-->Those Hmong with higher education, well balanced moral and ethical standard, broader worldview, strong religions background, understand today's life situation, don't face and get into this issue so much. Only traditionalists, older generation, money hunger, low educational background, extremists, stubborn Hmong wants this issue of dowry to be a continue problem. I mean what is $5,900 and $6,000 plus, really?
Hatred, dislike, long lists of unforgiven x-marriage between CLANS, generations of problems, Hmoob "nkaus" xwb, etc...that has been brought back to the "table" (Hmoob rub rooj) of marriage that has brought us to this. There is nothing good about "dowry." If there is, we (Hmong) would never let it come to this. Where is the issue of Hmong hospitality? Where is the issue on Hmong lub kawm? Where is the issue on Hmong welcoming you to their house? Where is the issue of hnav khawbncaws hmoob? If "Hmong dowry"
is a tradition, why is there a problem? This is no tradition, when the whole Hmong people-group disagree!!!! Tradition suppose to be a culture of a people-group that is unique to them and it is passing from one generation to the next. I see increasing of "dowry" as a downlow investment.