User Comments

Lloron on Jul 03, 2008 at 08:33:26 said:

You show me facts and I'll show you facts. You accuse me of lacking a factual bases, yet you provide none yourself. That is convenient. I can cite several studies that show that illegal immigrants have virtually no impact on the public fisc. You will likely trot out a few that show that they do. Then we'll argue about how each other's studies are biased, and how the authors are not qualified or how the study was flawed. I know how this works, I'm a lawyer, you don't have to tell me.

What is more important is to focus on how this debate affects humanity. You say that illegality of humans furthers the progress of humanity, or at the very least, of your nation or social group. I posit to you that these artificial distinctions are damaging both to humanity (writ large) and to our nation. Restrictionist immigration laws and harsh penalties for immigration violations don't help humanity's cause. They cause sub classes of human beings, they restrict the freedom of individuals to realize their full potential and maximize their earnings. Keeping large populations of people hostage in their home countries only increases the likelihood of exploitation. In other words, if you keep all of the world's poor fenced into poor countries, they will never be able to earn enough money to leave poverty. The rich corporations of the world know this and they move their manufacturing facilities to those countries in order to take advantage of these vulnerable people. If those people can't leave that situation and maximize their earning potential, the wages in their home countries won't rise. If their wages don't rise, there won't be any disincentives for companies to relocate to the cheap labor. If all companies start to move to cheap labor, the labor force in our country will have to follow the "race to the bottom" of wage levels. Who ends up winning in this scenario? Rich multinational corporations and their owners, banks, and the elites of poor countries.

My proposal is to free the poor from the constraints of their poor, corrupt, disfunctional countries. Let these people come to the U.S. and other developed countries and work. Let them support their families at home so that their families aren't susceptible to exploitation. Once these people are not cornered by necessity to work for a dollar a day, real change can happen in their home countries and we will all benefit.

The point is, we are all connected. That is the state of our world. Our country is a world leader. We can't stick our heads in the sand on the state of the world and on these important issues. Our money is better spent on encouraging immigration rather than restricting it. The only people in the U.S. who benefit from criminalization are federal bureaucrats who get billion dollar budgets at the expense of other public needs, private contractors who make money on prison and fence contracts, and airlines who contract to send people home. This is a huge waste of money. It serves no purpose. It doesn't make our country a better place. It doesn't increase our competitiveness with the rest of the world in any aspect. These are the important considerations for our future. You tell me nativessayno, how your plan works to make us all better.

nattivessayno on Jul 02, 2008 at 09:26:47 said:

Lloron , you cite a lot of vague notions regarding the weak, enslaved, vunerable...You mention lofty goals of addressing these issues: how though?

Better to blog and scorn or scold Closed Border posters that hold a different view on the matter with your muddled rationale; aligned with the powerful (?)

Again, bullying others while hiding behind the concept of "humanity". Who would argue against humanity???

Also, show me some facts, objective, rational, measurable information as in; who pays for this burgeoning population? Pesky little matters like responsibility and facts.

Lloron on Jul 01, 2008 at 21:16:16 said:

nativessayno-

i didn't say it was unpatriotic, I believe I implied that it was ignorant and shortsighted. Unlike you, I don't need to hide behind the shield of patriotism, nationalism, and xenophobia to win an argument.

If health care costs are the problem, fix the health care system. That is a separate public policy issue. If people can immigrate through legal channels easily, they can obtain health insurance through their jobs. Keeping them enslaved in their home countries or enslaved through fear by being undocumented doesn't solve our problem, doesn't solve their problems, and only serves to help those who have control over the world economy keep everyone down. Don't blame the most vulnerable people in our society. Blame the people who have the ability to make more humanistic policies, but refuse. If you are a mouthpiece for continued oppression of the weak, that means that you must be allied with the powerful. That means you, J Cir and nativessayno. You are the tools of the powerful to oppress the weak. Keep up the good work. You are models of what humanity should strive towards.

nativessayno on Jul 01, 2008 at 17:01:35 said:

Lloron, maybe we should permit Calderon to proscribe our immigration policy for us.

I posed this question before: Please find me one illegal immigrant mother that paid her own medical costs for her pregnacy and birth, etc. Find me one. Then get out a calculator; each birth alone and related costs are about $18K. If citizens beef about such thing according to you they are inhuman, know-nothing, etc.

Objective observations can be made here in LA. I see countless $18K taxpayer debits, many within the same family.

Funny, I would not even balk at this expense for a citizen, but explain to me why I have to pay for this for an illegal entrant to my country?

also questioning my patriotism because I do not share your misguided "liberal" take on this matter. That is some strange kind of bullying, agree with me or you are a racist. I happen to be of first american & mixed racial heritage,TY very much!

Calling a Closed Border person unpatriotic is pure idiocy to me! How is this onslaught not weakening us financially. Show some facts with your preaching, dude.

Lloron on Jul 01, 2008 at 10:43:14 said:

J Cir has no facts to support his assertions that an invasion has cost U.S. taxpayers money. The research shows a mixed bag of costs, mainly offset by the positive effects on the U.S. economy by millions of motivated workers who spend money in the U.S. on a daily basis. J Cir also ignores the studies that prove that immigrants, especially undocumented immigrants, have a lower propensity to commit crime.

The arguments of both of these "know nothing" commenters who frequent the blog rolls of this website are illogical, wrong-headed, alarmist, xenophobic, and inhuman. Instead of encouraging the U.S. to form more perfect partnerships with its hemispheric neighbors and create a more powerful and influential bloc to offset the growing power of Europe and Asia, these two want us to retreat into the past. That is what a weak country would do. We are not a weak country gentlemen. We are a world leader. With great leadership comes great responsibility. Responsibility to find answers to the problems that plague humanity, not just the privileged few that reside in the U.S. The U.S. is exceptional in history because it has strived to live up to its ideals and the challeges of leadership. If we follow the lead of J Cir and nativessayno, we will be relegated to the dustbin of history sooner than you can say "illegal!".

nativessayno on Jun 25, 2008 at 13:20:29 said:

Decrying so-called mis-match social security numbers....Why was this even required and necessary for us to have to address? Because criminals are using our personal ID! Duh! Why would La Opinion whine about that?

Mexico should be a lot more "stand-Up" on all of these issues because their government and media come off very slimey indeed and we are expected to "stomach" comply, and tolerate everything they say about my great great country! Sickening.

There arguments smack of a passive thug, odd combo- very unpleasant indeed. We need our neighbors to get things right and take better care of their own! How did it become my burden and cost anyway?

Build the wall already...Bush has about 18 weeks left in office; really glad he made protecing us a priority!

J Cir on Jun 25, 2008 at 11:35:53 said:

So, La Opinion, which is essentially a Mexican newspaper, for Mexicans who happen to be "residing" in the US, dares to cry about consequences, violated rights, and injustices. What about the consequences faced by Americans from a 25 year tidal wave of illegal immigrants? Does La Opinion care about the injustices American taxpayers face while we fund the education of illegal immigrant children and pay for the their health care? Where is La Opinion when American's rights are violated through violent crime commtted at the hands of illegal immigrants? Does La Opinion care in the least about the fundametal right of all Americans to have their borders enforced and to uphold their National soveriegnty? La Opinion cares about one thing: the welfare of Mexican immigrants, legal and illegal, in the US. Period. American citizens? The heck with them.

If La Opinion spent its time lamenting the pathetic and corrupt Mexican government and urging the Mexican diaspora to return to Mexico and make it a great, capitalist, free-market nation that reveres individual liberty and the rule of law, Americans would be the first to extend a hand to Mexicans as neighbors.