More Arizona Immigrants to Consider ‘Self-Deportation’

La Opinión, News Report, Claudia Nuñez, Translated by Elena Shore Posted: Apr 27, 2010

PHOENIX, Ariz. — In the last photograph she sent her parents, Sandra Ortiz looks happier than she really is. "It’s the big immigrant lie,” she explains. “If they only knew how many times you cry.” For the past nine years, she has lived her life between four walls, waiting for the promise of immigration reform.

Now, she says, “The best thing is to have a plan in case you get deported.”

The news that 90 days after the end of the legislative session, a law will criminalize undocumented immigrants in Arizona -- and give the police the power to investigate their legal status based solely on the way they look -- made her change her plan.

Owners of shopping centers, car lots, banks, money wiring services, and even the Mexican Consulate in Phoenix, are witnessing the rise of "self-deportations," generated by intimidation among the immigrant population in Arizona in recent years.

Laws such as those enforced by Sheriff Joe Arpaio of Maricopa County, who has made it his mission to persecute the undocumented, have caused hundreds of families to leave the city.

Phoenix consular officials have reported receiving as many as 94 applications to transfer school credits from the United States to the Mexican school system.

"It isn’t courage … it’s tiredness. Really, you get tired. You’ve already been persecuted for nine years," stresses Ortiz, a mother who overcame her fear and came out to protest SB 1070 which was signed into law on Friday by Arizona Gov. Jan Brewer.

Combined with the economic crisis and mortgage meltdown, James Patchmir, an economist and financial expert, believes that anti-immigrant sentiment could lead to the "self-deportation" of dozens of families.

"From the economic point of view, the damage will be considerable” if a large number of immigrants leave, Patchmir said. “Various studies show that Arizona is the state that receives the most taxes from businesses that send remittances to Mexico. We’re talking about more than $5 million."

But it isn’t just undocumented immigrants who will be targeted. Many children of immigrants will also feel persecuted under the new law. Even if they are U.S. citizens, children of immigrants are afraid that they will be targeted by authorities simply because they are Latino.

"The governor said she didn’t know what an undocumented immigrant looks like, but the police do and that's why this law was approved. But I look just like my mom and she doesn’t have papers," Clara Preciado said angrily.

The current law in Arizona, as in most states, does not allow the police to detain someone under “suspicion of being undocumented” and even criticizes police departments if they cooperate with federal investigations into immigration status.

But if the new law is not overturned by early August, when it is slated to go into effect, local authorities will be able to send an undocumented immigrant to be deported in a matter of hours.

Faith, however, persists. On Saturday, dozens of religious groups joined in a vigil to pray for the elimination of the law.

Arpaio celebrates

In a radio interview, the Maricopa County Sheriff welcomed the adoption of the law and predicted that other states would follow suit.

"You’re going to see a lot of interest from Washington politicians, because I think they’ll be afraid that other states follow our lead," he said.

Immigrant advocates agree that besides the economic effect, the law could worsen the already tenuous relationship between police and Latinos.

"This is going to lead to a sanctuary for criminals," warned Magdalena Schwartz of the Alliance of Valley Religious Leaders, who claims that immigrants will be afraid to report a crime for fear of being persecuted.

Opponents of the law left more than 11,000 phone messages for the governor warning of the law’s repercussions.

Hermenegildo Romero, who works at a hotel in an east Phoenix neighborhood, believes, like some of his friends, that it could be getting close to the time to go back.

"I tell my wife that maybe they did us a favor. We’ll be f----- if we stay here. She used to say we should put up with it for the sake of the kids, but now they’re going to go after them,” said Romero.

Several organizations have stressed that they will exhaust their legal resources to make sure that SB 1070, like Proposition 187 in California, will never go into effect. But in Arizona, home to an estimated half a million undocumented immigrants, with or without the law, hundreds of Latinos face deportation.



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James Li on May 04, 2010 at 15:16:36 said:

[It is NOT about the land that the USA "stole". It is about what the USA did with our country and with this land (much of it arid and desert) -- and with what what Mexico failed to do with her own.] Are you saying that the US is ‘entitled’ to the land because it did something with the land and Mexico didn’t?? Meaning that if you could develop the land properly it’s yours, and if you can’t you should give it up??? Are you SERIOUS with this argument??? THANK YOU SO MUCH!!!
Have you heard of those little land-limited enclaves in the Far East that had despite paucity of land developed into economic and national POWERHOUSES (one of them currently number two in the world; slipping perhaps now to number three) – Hongkong, Taiwan, Singapore, South Korea, Japan??? World-class economic and national Powerhouses all, and despite very limited land territories. These countries could very easily fit into just a few western US states. Any reasonable person will agree that these countries do make the best use of resources, are the best in developing their limited lands. So thank you, time for you to go off now. Just draw a straight line down from North Dakota to Texas, keep it simple, and handover. As you said, in your own words: ‘It is about what you do with the country and what others fail to do with theirs.’ [‘It is about what the USA did with our country and with this land (much of it arid and desert) -- and with what what Mexico failed to do with her own.’]
I absolutely GUARANTEE you, give it twenty years and you will NOT recognise the place.
And, by the way, if you are a man of your word, you should throw in Michigan. The last time I heard, they are reforesting Central Detroit because of dilapidation.
After this handover, you would still have the eastern US states – lots of land, maritime frontage, resources, more than enough to take care of the people. As you said, in your own words, “Mexico has an abundance of natural resources, an excellent climate, two tropical coastlines, mountains and more than enough resources to provide for her own citizens.” THANK YOU AGAIN!!!
[The USA bought the Louisiana Purchase from France… Now they are trying to go back on the sale of land to the USA. Mexico is incapable of taking responsibility for itself or its population.]
You have just failed Land Law 101. You have missed the arguments completely. France ROBBED; ergo, NO title. No title, No sale.
[The USA bought the Louisiana Purchase from France. There are not millions of illegal Canadians, waving Canadian flags, demanding citizenship and entitlements for breaking our laws and proclaiming that "You stole our land".]
Just by the way, Canadians have STOLEN their LITTLE bit of land which just happens to be THE BIGGEST NATIONAL LAND TERRITORY in the world.

My Mexican and Latino Friends, fight for your rights to stay and work in this country. ALWAYS remember, you have MORE rights than some others.


James Li on May 04, 2010 at 07:16:40 said:

[It is NOT about the land that the USA "stole". It is about what the USA did with our country and with this land (much of it arid and desert) -- and with what what Mexico failed to do with her own.] Are you saying that the US is ‘entitled’ to the land because it did something with the land and Mexico didn’t?? Meaning that if you could develop the land properly it’s yours, and if you can’t you should give it up??? Are you SERIOUS with this argument??? THANK YOU SO MUCH!!!
Have you heard of those little land-limited enclaves in the Far East that had despite paucity of land developed into economic and national POWERHOUSES (one of them currently number two in the world; slipping perhaps now to number three) – Hongkong, Taiwan, Singapore, South Korea, Japan??? World-class economic and national Powerhouses all, and despite very limited land territories. These countries could very easily fit into just a few eastern US states. Any reasonable person will agree that these countries do make the best use of resources, are the best in developing their limited lands. So thank you, time for YOU to go off now. Just draw a straight line down from North Dakota to Texas, keep it simple, and HANDOVER. As you said, in your own words: ‘It is about what you do with the country and what others fail to do with theirs.’ [‘It is about what the USA did with our country and with this land (much of it arid and desert) -- and with what what Mexico failed to do with her own.’]
I absolutely GUARANTEE you, give it twenty years and you will NOT recognize the place.
And, by the way, if you are a man of your word, you should throw in Michigan. The last time I heard, they are reforesting Central Detroit because of dilapidation.
After this handover, you would still have the western US states – lots of land, maritime frontage, resources, more than enough to take care of the people. As you said, in your own words, “Mexico has an abundance of natural resources, an excellent climate, two tropical coastlines, mountains and more than enough resources to provide for her own citizens.” THANK YOU AGAIN!!!
[The USA bought the Louisiana Purchase from France… Now they are trying to go back on the sale of land to the USA. Mexico is incapable of taking responsibility for itself or its population.]
You have just failed Land Law 101. You have missed the arguments completely. France ROBBED; ergo, NO title. No title, No sale.
[The USA bought the Louisiana Purchase from France. There are not millions of illegal Canadians, waving Canadian flags, demanding citizenship and entitlements for breaking our laws and proclaiming that "You stole our land".]
Just by the way, Canadians have STOLEN their LITTLE bit of land which just happens to be THE BIGGEST NATIONAL LAND TERRITORY in the world.

My Mexican and Latino Friends, fight for your rights to stay and work in this country. ALWAYS remember, you have MORE rights than some others.


Mario kings on May 04, 2010 at 06:26:58 said:

We as native American can't understand the hypocrisy of the white people they stolen our lands, they killed us, they took our best lands and gave us land (reservations) in the worst places, they forced us to learn their language,they raped ours women trying to erase our culture and traditions and still now they think we are second class citizens, and now they say that the hispanic are invaders that don't respect the law, you were and you are the invaders , this is our land not yours .


dww on May 04, 2010 at 00:31:29 said:

That fable was written over 2000 years ago. I doubt that Aesop had any knowledge of that "La Cucaracha" atmosphere of which you speak.

The USA bought the Louisiana Purchase from France. There are not millions of illegal Canadians, waving Canadian flags, demanding citizenship and entitlements for breaking our laws and proclaiming that "You stole our land".

Mexico has an abundance of natural resources, an excellent climate, two tropical coastlines, mountains and more than enough resources to provide for her own citizens.

It is NOT about the land that the USA "stole". It is about what the USA did with our country and with this land (much of it arid and desert) -- and with what what Mexico failed to do with her own.

The USA takes in more legal immigrants than all other countries combined. If we need additional labor there are plenty that have been waiting in line to come here and will gladly come here with out the attitude, the hate and the rationalizations for entitlement.

Perhaps the USA should have recognized the government of Maximilian and not worked to have him removed when the French occupied Mexico. Mexico reneged on their debt to France. Now they are trying to go back on the sale of land to the USA. Mexico is incapable of taking responsibility for itself or its population. And NO it in NOT the fault of the USA.


James Li on May 03, 2010 at 02:42:46 said:

Yeah, yeah!!! WHATEVER you say, you’re RIGHT!! Whites are Ants. Mexicans, Latinos, migrants are GRASSHOPPERS. WRONG is RIGHT; Right is WRONG. ROBBERY equates to LEGAL RIGHTS. Advocacy for a modicum of fairness, decency is Un-American. Telling the simple Truth is Hate-Mongering. Mexicans cleaning your house is RECONQUISTA. A nuclear MIRV missile that could flatten twenty cities is ‘The Peacekeeper’. [‘The Peacekeeper’ a MIRV missile, carrying up to 10 re-entry vehicles, each armed with a 300-kiloton warhead (twenty times the power of the bomb dropped on Hiroshima)] The Pentagon and Ministry of Defence is the Ministry of World Peace and International Harmony, respectively. ‘You have to DESTROY a village in order to SAVE it.’ ["We had to destroy the village in order to save it." Bến Tre, South Vietnam, February 7, 1968; attributed to an unnamed U.S. officer by AP correspondent Peter Arnett.] Now in Iraq: “We must KILL you, bomb you to bits to set you Free.”
And “America is A SHINING CITY upon A HILL whose beacon light guides freedom-loving people everywhere.” Ronald Reagan, farewell address, 11 January 1989, Washington D.C. Although, the HILL, actually, is STOLEN.
And Thomas Jefferson wrote, “That ALL Men are created EQUAL…” while Sally Hemmings served him tea and a few other things besides…

envoi
My Mexican and Latino Friends, fight for your rights to stay and work in this country. ALWAYS remember, you have MORE rights than some others.
bye


James Li on May 02, 2010 at 21:41:30 said:

Yeah, yeah!! I get it: Whites are the ants ‘working hard in the withering heat all summer long, building his house and laying up supplies for the winter’. Mexicans, Latinos (migrants??) are grasshoppers ‘laughing and dancing and playing the summer away’. [Why not throw in a few strains of "La Cucaracha" to build up a more, you know, ‘mañana’ atmosphere?]
Trouble is…the last time I looked, literally, across the fields of Arizona, and Oregon, Nevada, New Mexico, Texas, California and, I am sure, elsewhere as well, ‘withering in the summer heat’ - the orchards, market-gardens, fruit gardens, fields – the bent backs were, and are, BROWN, not white at all. Simply put: BROWN ants, NOT white ants.
Ants ‘laying up supplies for the winter’.
Trouble is…the last time I looked into the economic journals, financial papers, even popular newspapers TRILLIONS upon TRILLIONS of DEBT have been built up by, you know, your ANTS. TRILLIONS upon TRILLIONS of DEBT. ‘Laying up supplies for the winter’??? It looks rather more like Profligately, absolutely Recklessly, absolutely Heedlessly using up the patrimony of All foreseeable generations. Of course, I might just be wrong.
Ants ‘laying up supplies for the winter’.
Trouble is …the last time I looked at communities with that sort of ant-like behavior, you know saving, ‘laying up supplies for the winter’, the communities are NOT HERE but, rather, further east, like, you know, THE FAR EAST???
Whites are the ants ‘working hard in the withering heat all summer long, building his house and laying up supplies for the winter’.
Trouble is…the more I get to know you guys, whenever I think of whites the image that comes up is not ‘ants’ but squids – SQUIDS. You know Matt Taibbi’s Rolling Stone Magazine ‘SQUID’: THE GREAT HUGE VAMPIRE SQUID that clamps itself onto your face, jams its slimy proboscis into your throat, right through your gullet into your guts and sucks every last bit of blood you have. That’s Right, GREAT HUGE VAMPIRE SQUIDS that suck every last bit of blood you have, down to the very last drop!!! Every last bit of blood from blacks (slavery remember, or is that REALLY old???) from browns, from ANYONE.
Now, Why do you think that when I think of you guys, whites, the image that comes up is SQUID not ANTS??? Why do you think…


More Parables on May 02, 2010 at 11:41:49 said:

Parable of The Ant and the Grasshopper

OLD VERSION: The ant works hard in the withering heat all summer long, building his house and laying up supplies for the winter. The grasshopper thinks he's a fool and laughs and dances and plays the summer away. Come winter, the ant is warm and well fed. The grasshopper has no food or shelter, so he dies out in the cold. MORAL OF THE STORY: Be responsible for yourself!

MODERN VERSION: The ant works hard in the withering heat all summer long, building his house and laying up supplies for the winter. The grasshopper thinks he's a fool and laughs and dances and plays the summer away. Come winter, the shivering grasshopper calls a press conference and demands to know why the ant should be allowed to be warm and well fed while others are cold and starving.

CBS, NBC, ABC and CNN show up to provide pictures of the shivering grasshopper next to a video of the ant in his comfortable home with a table filled with food. America is stunned by the sharp contrast. How can this be, that in a country of such wealth, this poor grasshopper is allowed to suffer so?

Kermit the Frog appears on Oprah with the grasshopper, and everybody cries when they sing, "Its Not Easy Being Green."

Jesse Jackson stages a demonstration in front of the ant's house where the news stations film the group singing, "We shall overcome." Jesse then has the group kneel down to pray to God for the grasshopper's sake.

Tom Daschle & John Kerry exclaim in an interview with Katie Couric that the ant has gotten rich off the back of the grasshopper, and both call for an immediate tax hike on the ant to make him pay his "fair share".

Finally, the EEOC drafts the "Economic Equity and Anti-Grasshopper Act", retroactive to the beginning of the summer. The ant is fined for failing to hire a proportionate number of green bugs and, having nothing left to pay his retroactive taxes, his home is confiscated by the government.

Hillary gets her old law firm to represent the grasshopper in a defamation suit against the ant, and the case is tried before a panel of federal judges that Bill appointed from a list of single-parent welfare recipients. The ant loses the case.

The story ends as we see the grasshopper finishing up the last bits of the ant's food while the government house he is in, which just happens to be the ant's old house, crumbles around him because he doesn't maintain it. The ant has disappeared in the snow. The grasshopper is found dead in a drug related incident and the house, now abandoned, is taken over by a gang of spiders who terrorize the once peaceful neighborhood.

The story continues when the house burns to the ground after a meth-making incident.

The government declares all houses ecologically evil and abandons the house. It can control the distribution of wealth and population better by cramming everyone into smart growth communities.

A community of beetles cleans up the burned-out lot and builds a new house with out government support or assistance. They carry their own dirt, mow their own lawn and sweep their own porch. They create a home and a fine place to live until...

A group of grasshoppers declare that "YOU STOLE OUR HOUSE" because their great-great grand grasshopper lived there. They then proceed to mow the lawn, sweep the porch and carry the dirt. Complain that they are treated poorly because they are just doing the jobs beetles do not want to do. Then use that as a justification for overpopulating the house until it is uninhabitable.

MORAL OF THE STORY: Vote them all out


James Li on May 02, 2010 at 05:48:46 said:

[quack,quack,quack.If it talks like a reconquista, if it walks like a reconquista...]
RECONQUISTA??? Are you having me on??? The U.S. of A., you know THE U.S. OF A. – THE HyperPOWER, MASTER OF THE UNIVERSE – afraid of being RECONQUERED by those who do your lawn, clean your porch, carry your dirt??? Come on!!! No, this is NOT about RECONQUISTA. IT IS JUST ABOUT SIMPLE, HUMAN DECENCY. I mean, when you had taken away another’s land, is it not just the decent thing to do to let them have some menial work so that they could have a little bit of a life??? Or is that least little spark of human decency also NOT there???


James Li on May 02, 2010 at 05:15:37 said:

[Fella... you are spewing nothing but pure hate here. It does NOTHING to further your cause. It has gotten REALLY old. The only thing coming out of the shadows are the voices that will no longer listen to this drivel. No one buys this sh*t. Clue by four: -they haven't for years.]
Fine. That’s GOOD. Let me drive you out, occupy your house. Stay there for, say, five generations. When your great-grandchildren turn up at the doorstep, just say this: “Fella... you are spewing nothing but pure hate here. It has gotten REALLY old. No one listens to this drivel; no one buys this sh*t - they haven't for years.. Rack Off.” That’s GOOD.


James Li on May 02, 2010 at 04:52:14 said:

[Fella... you are spewing nothing but pure hate here. It does NOTHING to further your cause. It has gotten REALLY old.]
It has gotten REALLY old???? Not really. Just two words for you: Iraq, Afghanistan.
The best predictor of behavior is past behavior.


Dances with Wind on May 01, 2010 at 21:08:14 said:

\"\" So...Arizona scarcely populated --by Indian tribes or sparsely populated by settlers(Mexican *or* Anglo)? \"\"

Yeah,OK, I know this was in reference to Texas - the Lone Star State. Why is it called that? Because they became independent from both Mexico and the USA. The people of that state later CHOSE to become part of this country.


Dances with Wind on May 01, 2010 at 20:06:45 said:

\"\" So...Arizona scarcely populated --by Indian tribes or sparsely populated by settlers(Mexican *or* Anglo)? \"\"

Yeah,OK, I know this was in reference to Texas - the Lone Star State. Why is it called that? Because they became independent from both Mexico and the USA. The people of that state later CHOSE to become part of this country.


Dances with Wind on May 01, 2010 at 19:57:52 said:

"" Now you are talking…now you are really getting down to the nub of the matter. Yes, that’s it. The white man simply killed off the owners of the land and took it over. ""


"" [1824: with little money for the military, Mexico encouraged settlers to create their own militias for protection against hostile Indian tribes. Texas was very sparsely populated and in the hope that an influx of settlers could control the Indian raids, the government liberalized immigration policies for the region. The first group of Anglo colonists, known as the Old Three Hundred, arrived in 1822 to settle.
The Mexican-born settlers in Texas were soon vastly outnumbered by people born in the United States. ""

So...Arizona scarcely populated --by Indian tribes or sparsely populated by settlers(Mexican *or* Anglo)? Mexico was conquered by Spanish soldiers. Spaniards are white ( though they are not Anglos).

Mexico was a Spanish territory for centuries. ""with little money for the military"",(or anything else) the government of Mexico sold the land to the government of the USA within a few decades after independence. Anyone residing in those territories had the choice of remaining and becoming a citizen of the USA.

Fella... you are spewing nothing but pure hate here. It does NOTHING to further your cause. It has gotten REALLY old. The only thing coming out of the shadows are the voices that will no longer listen to this drivel. No one buys this sh*t. Clue by four: -they haven't for years.

But hey, thanks for letting the few that still think that this is about migrants, immigrants (documented or not), diversity, tolerance, jobs Americans won't do, the price of tomatoes, social justice, economic justice, environmental justice...

JUST US:
"" Mexicans and Latinos FIGHT for your rights to stay and work in Arizona. Arizona IS YOUR lands. Arizona is STOLEN LANDS, ROBBED at the point of a gun little more than 150 years ago. On the other hand, you had settled these lands more than 15,000 years ago. The historical ROBBERS of these lands and territories have no right to deport the actual owners of these lands from their territories. THE ILLEGAL ALIENS ARE NOT YOU BUT THE AMERICANS. Those to be deported should be Americans and not YOU. ROBBERS CAN NEVER BE OWNERS. Do Not be Robbed Thrice Over. ""


"" Are not the indigenous Indians of these territories robbed twice over - by the Spanish, and now the Americans? What right do you have historical ROBBERS of lands and territories to deport the actual owners of these lands from their historical territories? THE ILLEGAL ALIENS ARE NOT THE MEXICAN LATINOS BUT THE AMERICANS. Those to be deported should be Americans. ROBBERS CAN NEVER BE OWNERS. ""

Perhaps you should inquire how American citizen indigenous peoples feel about, once again, having their land "settled" by "Mexican Settlers"

quack,quack,quack.If it talks like a reconquista, if it walks like a reconquista...

One of the more damaging consequences of allowing millions of people to illegally enter, live and work in this country is the rational they create to rationalize their illegal behavior.


James Li on Apr 30, 2010 at 19:03:01 said:

[Back then, countries fought and conquered and claimed land. Your history books will enlighten you on how that worked. Siren]
Now you are talking…now you are really getting down to the nub of the matter. Yes, that’s it. The white man simply killed off the owners of the land and took it over. It is as simple as that. THEY ROBBED IT. THEY ROBBED IT. They then concocted a doctrine called ‘the right of conquest’ (Hugo Grotius: On the Law of War and Peace, 1625) which simply said this: ‘If I ROBBED you, you must then recognize me as the legal owner of the thing I have robbed you off and you must accept my legal rights over the thing I have robbed. Why? Because I have ROBBED you – I have ‘the right of conquest’.
Can you see the utter NONSENSE this is??? I ROBBED you of your thing, and now I am legal owner of it and you must respect my rights because I have ROBBED you of it!!!
It is sheer absolute nonsense.
My point is this – simple – When you ROB, you do NOT acquire rights. [Let me go onto your backyard and occupy it and then say it is mine because I have occupied it, because of ‘the right of conquest’. Does this make any sense at all to you???] You can piously refer to the New Testament, Old Testament, to this and to that (as Grotius did), but you STILL REMAIN A ROBBER. Your spouting all this nonsense only reveals that you are more than just a simple ROBBER; You are A SELF-RIGHTEOUS, HYPOCRITICAL ROBBER.
Arizona, and Oregon, and Nevada, and New Mexico, and Texas, and California are ALL STOLEN LANDS.
Mexicans and Latinos FIGHT for your rights to stay and work in Arizona!! Arizona IS YOUR land!! The ROBBERS have NO rights over it.


dom youngross on Apr 30, 2010 at 14:43:18 said:

It just doesn't fly anymore. All the sob stories. But despite all the breast-beating, sackcloth, and ashes, the USA is still where so many from around the world want to immigrate to. And there is a process for that, with a reason behind it. Legal fulfillment of that process will keep the USA as the place where so many want to immigrate to.


Siren on Apr 29, 2010 at 23:00:33 said:

Everyone keeps bringing up the fact that waaaay back in the day, there were no visas to be had. Well, our country united and created a government and laws, and these things that were not in effect when ships first landed are in effect today. Back then, countries fought and conquered and claimed land. Your history books will enlighten you on how that worked. As a Hispanic-American myself, I am so embarrassed by the behavior and the upheaval that is being caused. If you're legal here, keep your ID with you like all Americans over the age of 18 are required to do anyway, don't get into trouble with the law and don't cop a bad attitude if someone asks you questions about who you are. There is no offense to this unless you make it offensive. Latinos all over America are telling stories about how they are going to get plucked off their front porches or from the Baskin Robbins while buying an ice cream, just because their skin is brown...and they are going to be ID'd and interrogated. It's BS, and it's being blown out of proportion and exagerrated because they just want to make up one more thing to make themselves seem like victims. If I go to Italy and stay too long, they will kick me out because its not my home, and if I want to make it my home, there is a process. Likewise, if you are illegal in American...prepare to go back home and come back when you've gone through the proper channels.


Frank on Apr 29, 2010 at 20:26:25 said:

James Lin, nobody will argue with you because of two reasons, first you are correct and second most likely they don't know what are you talking about, to them America was just here, many people here don’t know anything about history, I know that because if they knew they would not be writing such stupid things, I have asked many times, back then did immigrants go to their Embassy requested a visa, WAITED and then came to this country? We all know the answer is NO, remember Ellis Island? Boats loaded with people? I am not even mentioning the original settlers that History channel mentions how brave they fought the British crown (they deserve all the credit) but never mention how many natives were killed in order to take the land from them, people feel that because they are third, fourth, fifth or many generation Americans, this is their country but they do not understand that they also came from somewhere, they are not thinking that once this was not their country either, their ancestors came here just like all of us, we all came here with the same purpose, in search of a better life.

James Li, do not argue you will never get anywhere.
Do you know why that guy Steven Ski is asking. Do you think American crossed the border? please explain to him that a vast part of the United States used to be Mexico, I do not know exact details but i am sure do you, thanks in advance.
Do not get upset just show the facts.


James Li on Apr 29, 2010 at 06:57:07 said:

The Parable of Los Gringos Tenants
A family owned a large, rambling manor (a hacienda?). The residence was in a dilapidated condition – leaky roofs, sagging walls. The family, in straitened financial circumstances, decided to let out a few rooms, to help defray repairs expenses. Tenants came in, Los Gringos. Though they rented only a few rooms, Los Gringos invited many of their cousins, kin, friends to come. The owners, unhappy with this influx, protested. But Los Gringos and their gang, now more numerous than the owners, went on a murderous rampage killing many of the family. The survivors fled for their lives into the surrounding desert.
Years later, the grandchildren of the owner family, tired of surviving in the inhospitable desert came to the front door of the hacienda and begged Los Gringos, “Please, let us become your servants – sweeping your yard, picking your dirt, becoming your peons – just let us live in the hacienda, away from the desert.”
Los Gringos said, “No!!! Go Away!! You bloody bunch of …. losers!!! We are the owners of the manor, and we set the rules. BE OFF WITH YOU!!!
The ‘hacienda’ is Arizona, and Oregon, and Nevada, and New Mexico, and Texas, and California.

[1824: with little money for the military, Mexico encouraged settlers to create their own militias for protection against hostile Indian tribes. Texas was very sparsely populated and in the hope that an influx of settlers could control the Indian raids, the government liberalized immigration policies for the region. The first group of Anglo colonists, known as the Old Three Hundred, arrived in 1822 to settle.
The Mexican-born settlers in Texas were soon vastly outnumbered by people born in the United States.
The Battle of the Alamo (February 23 – March 6, 1836) was a pivotal event in the so-called Texas Revolution. Buoyed by a desire for revenge, the Anglo-settlers defeated the Mexican Army at the Battle of San Jacinto, on April 21, 1836, ending the revolution and unilaterally annexing Mexican territories.]


James Li on Apr 29, 2010 at 06:47:45 said:

The Parable of Los Gringos Tenants
A family owned a large, rambling manor (a hacienda?). The residence was in a dilapidated condition – leaky roofs, sagging walls. The family, in straitened financial circumstances, decided to let out a few rooms, to help defray repairs expenses. Tenants came in, Los Gringos. Though they rented only a few rooms, los Gringos invited many of their cousins, kin, friends to come. The owners, unhappy with this influx, protested. But Los Gringos and their gang, now more numerous than the owners, went on a murderous rampage killing many of the family. The survivors fled for their lives into the surrounding desert.
Years later, the grandchildren of the owner family, tired of surviving in the inhospitable desert came to the front door of the hacienda and begged Los Gringos, “Please, let us become your servants – sweeping your yard, picking your dirt, becoming your peons – just let us live in the hacienda, away from the desert.”
Los Gringos said, “No!! Go Away!! You bloody bunch of … losers!!! We are the owners of the manor, and we set the rules. BE OFF WITH YOU!!!
The ‘hacienda’ is Arizona, and Oregon, and Nevada, and New Mexico, and Texas, and California.

[1824: with little money for the military, Mexico encouraged settlers to create their own militias for protection against hostile Indian tribes. Texas was very sparsely populated and in the hope that an influx of settlers could control the Indian raids, the government liberalized immigration policies for the region. The first group of Anglo colonists, known as the Old Three Hundred, arrived in 1822 to settle.
The Mexican-born settlers in Texas were soon vastly outnumbered by people born in the United States.
The Battle of the Alamo (February 23 – March 6, 1836) was a pivotal event in the so-called 'Texas Revolution' ('TEXAN LAND GRAB'). Buoyed by a desire for revenge, the Anglo-settlers defeated the Mexican Army at the Battle of San Jacinto, on April 21, 1836, ending the revolution and unilaterally annexing Mexican territories.]


James Li on Apr 28, 2010 at 18:13:54 said:

[It has ALWAYS been illegal to go into ANY country without documentation.]
I believe I had queried this: “Ditto 1492. Did Columbus acquire a proper visa before he landed??? Did the Pilgrim Fathers obtain visas from Chief Massasoit before they landed??? You had ALWAYS crossed… into other peoples’ lands ILLEGALLY.”

Leaving that aside, just answer me this please: On what basis, on what principle(s) had the US (and you as a white man) acquired title and ownership over Arizona?
And we will proceed to discuss this from there.


mary rose cedillo on Apr 28, 2010 at 18:03:35 said:

to all illegal aliens go home , and lets see how many americans will do your jobs . me and all my family were born in usa .and half of the family do not work,or don't want to work,they all receive foodstamp and the woman are on medicaid, and they want a job that will pay then more as if they had a degree,


James Li on Apr 28, 2010 at 17:30:31 said:

[It has ALWAYS been illegal to go into ANY country without documentation.]
I believe I had queried this: “Ditto 1492. Did Columbus acquire a proper visa before he landed??? Did the Pilgrim Fathers obtain visas from Chief Massasoit before they landed??? You had ALWAYS crossed… into other peoples’ lands ILLEGALLY.”

Leaving that aside, just answer me this please: On what basis, on what principle(s) had the US (and you as a white man) acquired title and ownership over Arizona?
And we will proceed to discuss this from there.


R Bateman on Apr 28, 2010 at 09:14:55 said:

It has ALWAYS been illegal to go into ANY country without documentation. It has ALWAYS been illegal to hire people for less than minimum wage. It has ALWAYS been illegal to use a fake ID. It has ALWAYS been illegal to accept welfare or other services fraudulently. It has just NEVER been enforced by the Federal government. EVERY country has similar laws. Would it be preferred that we adopt the immigration laws of Mexico? Because we could certainly do that instead. Or, perhaps the immigration laws of China?

The very notion that this is somehow racist or unfair is ridiculous. I am white, but I get ID'd every time I travel, go into a government building, drink, or purchase certain items at Walmart. Does that make it Anti-white?


James Li on Apr 28, 2010 at 06:47:13 said:

And thus J Cir completely UNABLE to address and answer the realities of the situation, historical facts, the pungent TRUTH resorted, as is usual with his ilk, to name-calling, evasions by adjectives – the customary, very typical modus operandi of those who does not have the HONESTY to face what must surely be properly accepted….the accustomed refuge of intrinsic HYPOCRITES…
Not disappointed at all…had seen it thousands times…

As forefathers, as descendants.

“They made us many promises, more than I can remember, but they kept only one; they promised to take our land, and they did.”
Mahpiua Luta aka Red Cloud (chief Oglala Sioux) born 1822, Platte River, Nebraska Territory, died Dec. 10, 1909, Pine Ridge Agency, South Dakota.


J Cir on Apr 28, 2010 at 05:39:10 said:

And thus, through the bold, courageous, and patriotic anti-ILLEGAL immigrant and citizen protection legislation thankfully signed into law by Gov. Brewer, Arizona has shown in four days what the Democrat party, the Catholic church, thug labor unions, the race-baiting industry, and the expanding drug and gang communities long feared: forceful implementation of existing immigration laws will make life uncomfortable for illegal immigrants (as it should be) and ultimately entice many illegal immigrants to leave.

Unlike American-loathing James Li, most right-minded Americans, including half of the Democrats polled, are in favor of Arizona-type legislation ("A new Rasmussen Reports telephone survey finds that 60% of voters nationwide favor such a law, while 31% are opposed.")

The Arizona law will hopefully be a model for federal legislation. Until the tidal wave of illegal immigration is reduced to near zero and the illegal immigrant population decreases considerably, any form of amnesty will be the death knell for any so-called immigration reform legislation. Sobering truth for un-American\'s like James Li, but maybe a long stay in a socialist paradise like Cuba or Venezuela will soothe his pain.


James Lin on Apr 27, 2010 at 21:35:44 said:

[what do you think if americans crossed the border, into mexico, illegally. ?????????
ILLEGALLY???]
ISN’T THIS WHAT YOU HAD BEEN DOING ALL THE TIME, for HUNDREDS OF YEARS??? Crossing into other peoples’ borders ILLEGALLY!!!
1836: Sam Houston, James Bowie, William Travis, Davy Crockett (the Alamo gang)
started the Texas 'Revolution'. The Mexican authorities had earlier welcomed them as settlers. They rose against those who had let them in. Is this LEGAL??? It was a LAND GRAB, A ROBBERY OF A VAST TERRITORY. Pure and Simple: Completely and absolutely ILLEGAL!!!
Ditto the so-called ‘Texas War of Independence’, in the course of which you ROBBED Arizona.
Ditto 1492. Did Columbus acquire a proper visa before he landed??? Did the Pilgrim Fathers obtain visas from Chief Massasoit before they landed???
You had ALWAYS crossed, and still ARE crossing, into other peoples’ lands ILLEGALLY. Iraq. Afghanistan. After landing, you then ROBBED them of their lands. Now You ROBBERS go all pious and say, “what do you think if americans crossed the border, into mexico, illegally. ?????????”
Don’t talk piously to me about crossing across borders illegally. You make others puke.


magyart on Apr 27, 2010 at 20:45:37 said:

It's working.


steve ski on Apr 27, 2010 at 19:27:26 said:

what do you think if americans crossed the border, into mexico, illegally. ?????????


James Li on Apr 27, 2010 at 18:56:51 said:

Mexicans and Latinos FIGHT for your rights to stay and work in Arizona. Arizona IS YOUR lands. Arizona is STOLEN LANDS, ROBBED at the point of a gun little more than 150 years ago. On the other hand, you had settled these lands more than 15,000 years ago. The historical ROBBERS of these lands and territories have no right to deport the actual owners of these lands from their territories. THE ILLEGAL ALIENS ARE NOT YOU BUT THE AMERICANS. Those to be deported should be Americans and not YOU. ROBBERS CAN NEVER BE OWNERS. Do Not be Robbed Thrice Over.


James Li on Apr 27, 2010 at 18:39:41 said:

Is Arizona not annexed land circa 1848, courtesy the Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo (1848), when Mexico ceded to the U.S.many territories inclusive of today's Arizona? In short, is Arizona not STOLEN LANDS, ROBBED at the point of a gun? Are not the indigenous Indians of these territories robbed twice over - by the Spanish, and now the Americans? What right do you have historical ROBBERS of lands and territories to deport the actual owners of these lands from their historical territories? THE ILLEGAL ALIENS ARE NOT THE MEXICAN LATINOS BUT THE AMERICANS. Those to be deported should be Americans. ROBBERS CAN NEVER BE OWNERS.


Jeff Wells on Apr 27, 2010 at 16:49:51 said:

Absolutely right. Removing the access to jobs from employers would go along way to removing the incentive to stay in USA. Heavy fines and actual prison sentences for guity employers show the others what will happen.


J Wade on Apr 27, 2010 at 15:24:54 said:

I have read that protestors to the bill are encouraging boycotting of tourism, businesses and even the Diamondbacks. I wonder if they will also boycott the Dept. of Social Services. The state of AZ and many others simply cannot afford to keep providing for everyone and that number is growing rapidly.


Jim B on Apr 27, 2010 at 14:09:59 said:

I would say that this is working perfectly. Self deportation is the best way to deport the aliens.When America has recovered from this economic nightmare there may come a time when we need foreign workers. Now is not the time.


tom on Apr 27, 2010 at 13:22:48 said:

Finally somebody gets it. The good ol USA cannot afford to provide the world a job and a place to live. There is a process to be followed and for those who do you are welcome --for those who don't ---pack your bags!
I also think the time has come to limit those we do admit legally--for the same reasons of economics. Our welfare systems cannot handle it


Dave on Apr 27, 2010 at 07:57:11 said:

It's not that the "undocumented are being persecuted", illegal aliens can't work legally. Let them go home on their own and apply for a VISA (in they wish) from their home country.


l00ker on Apr 27, 2010 at 06:57:32 said:

That's absolutely correct, you will get ****** if you stay here illegally, and then you'll get deported.

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